Hello All,

Can anyone recommend a quality (nationwide or in the Tampa FL area) PC builder that uses high quality parts and will warranty the whole system.

I have considered building my own but would rather not.

Dell and HP have great prices for entry level machines. But, once you get into the more powerfull machines you seem to pay a huge premium. Also... high end stuff like Alienware etc is not where I want to go.

Any recos would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, BOb

Why don't you build your own? I mean it is like putting LEGO blocks together these days.

It depends on how much systems you need, but if it's for your own dev box, I'd go for selfbuild as well, unless you really want system-warantee. Then I'd go for the larger builders and simply purchase same business day warantee.

The drawback of dell/etc stuff is that some essential parts aren't standard. Like their mobo's and chases, they're not standard: the mobo's use a different powerconnector (at least my precision 670 has)

For our server I recently went for home-build again as the price difference was simply too big.

For a high-end system, a dell / hp has the advantage that the SAS/SCSI stuff is usually a tiny bit less expensive than with the home-build stuff, at least here in Europe.

So I'd go for 4-core intel, SAS disks and 3GB memory (more is just a waste). The SAS disks/controller might be expensive, but for visual studio work it's essential: the faster your disks, the better performance. You could also start with dual core intel and upgrade next year to a cheaper 4 core.

My take on FransPC: 3Gb is max for 32 bit systems, otherwise one might use much more (virtual pc-s and vista eat much memory). Right, faster disks more fun - perhpaps a raid 0+1 is a good thing (I am running one on my dev machine) As per quad core I am not that sure. One won't get much advantage unless it is a server machine. Dual core is the sweet spot right now. I would also recommend silent PC (12cm fans, 14cm on the PSU, fanless mobo and graphic card) - your ears will thank you.

Pretty standard stuff, except I would put this in for thought:

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000335.html

Jeff

mihies wrote:

Why don't you build your own? I mean it is like putting LEGO blocks together these days.

Because I want to deal with one place for possible problems. I guess I could buy all parts from the same place.

The second reason is that some parts don't work as well with other parts... also, drivers etc. I would expect a system builder has worked the kinks out of these issues.

BOb

Otis wrote:

So I'd go for 4-core intel, SAS disks and 3GB memory (more is just a waste). The SAS disks/controller might be expensive, but for visual studio work it's essential: the faster your disks, the better performance. You could also start with dual core intel and upgrade next year to a cheaper 4 core.

I've been out of hard ware for a while, what is SAS?

I am thinking of doing a 64-bit system, 4 core. But, probably around the Fall time frame unless I can find a really good deal.

BOb

mihies wrote:

My take on FransPC: 3Gb is max for 32 bit systems, otherwise one might use much more (virtual pc-s and vista eat much memory). Right, faster disks more fun - perhpaps a raid 0+1 is a good thing (I am running one on my dev machine) As per quad core I am not that sure. One won't get much advantage unless it is a server machine. Dual core is the sweet spot right now. I would also recommend silent PC (12cm fans, 14cm on the PSU, fanless mobo and graphic card) - your ears will thank you.

Actuall, I was thinking about one of the SSD (solid state) disks as the primary drive for OS/Programs. The 30 gig ones are still pretty pricey. Then a 500gb or so 10k RPM sata drive for data. But, not sure if 30gb will be enough for OS and all dev tools.

I think quad-core would be used espesially when running SQL Server and virtual PC on it.

BOb

PilotBob wrote:

I've been out of hard ware for a while, what is SAS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Attached_SCSI

jeffreygg wrote:

Pretty standard stuff, except I would put this in for thought: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000335.html

Yes, I saw that and I think they are at least partially wrong. RAID 0 (or 0+1) effectively doubles the transfer speed and increases the latency a bit. And note that even the transfer speed from disks own cache is doubled. That means, if you have a couple of 7200rmp (SATA) disks they are almost as fast as one 15000rpm (7200 * 2 = 14400) when transfering data but they are a bit slower when you look at the latency. OTOH the total size is doubled and thus they are a lot cheaper compared to SAS or SCSI stuff. That's it. No miracles there - you have to judge by yourself what is good for you.

Personally I run 4x320Gb/7200rmp disks in RAID 0+1 mode and I am happy so far. Not sure how does this configuration compare to SAS in reality though.

PilotBob wrote:

mihies wrote:

Why don't you build your own? I mean it is like putting LEGO blocks together these days.

Because I want to deal with one place for possible problems. I guess I could buy all parts from the same place.

If you are looking to build your own, I'm not sure you can do any better than newegg.com for your parts. They have a great reputation for great prices and fast shipping. In addition, they have a great feedback system (comments and ratings) so it is very easy to find out what is good and what is not so good. I actually sort my products based on rating or number of comments. When I see something that has a five star rating from several hundred people, that gives me much more confidence than guessing on my own. Also, you can get pretty good ideas about what pieces to put together by reading the comments. Many people post the specific pieces they used in building their latest machine.

Matt

Well, for giggles I went an did a comparison of a "decent" Dell PC and then the parts to build something "similar". I'm not 100% sure on this but here is what I found.

Dell System:

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6600 (2.40GHz, 4M, 1066MHz FSB) edit Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition,SP2, x32, with Media, English edit 2GB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM,800MHz, (2 DIMM) edit 250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s and 8MB DataBurst Cache™ edit 16X DVD+/-RW SATA, Roxio Creator™ Dell Edition edit 256MB ATI Radeon X1300PRO, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA (TV-out), FH edit Broadcom NetXtreme 10/100/1000 PCIe Gigabit Networking Card, Full Height edit Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard, English, Black edit Dell USB 2-Button Optical Mouse with Scroll, Black edit

WARRANTY & SERVICE 3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year NBD On-Site Service edit

$1,384

New Egg Parts:

XION Hydraulic XON-566TB Black with Blue LED Light Steel ATX Mid Tower Case

APEVIA ICEBERG ATX-IB680W-BL ATX12V / EPS12V 680W Power Supply

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600

ASUS P5WDG2-WS PRO Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Server Motherboard

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250820AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

SAMSUNG 18X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write, LightScribe Technology Black SATA Model SH-S183L - OEM

ATI 100-437601 Radeon X1300PRO 256MB GDDR2 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Ready Video Card

Lan - The mother board had 10/100/1000 Nic onboard so I didn't add one.

$1,031.94 - $100 (mail in rebates)

$931.94 (I didn't count keyboard/mouse/os but figure $100 for those?)

So, about $400 less already. I tried to pick the same exact part if possible. But for mother board, case, power supply, memory I couldn't really do that.

The concern is I don't know that much about these parts, and they all have individual warranties.

However, ramping up even a little from this point makes a big difference. Like for Dell, to move to the E6700 CPU (2.66 instead of 2.44) they say add $306. The newegg diff on the two processors is $94. Dell, going to 4 gig they say add 535, where the 2gig ram I selected at newegg was $124. The only thing about in line with Dell is a second hard drive would be $87 which the 250gb I list about goes for $68 or I could get the 500gb for $62 more.

Also, I'm not sure if this comes with cables or what? I assume the MB comes with the interface cables... that they way it used to be back when I build PC for a living.

Oh well, if anyone has any suggestion about any of these parts, let me know.

Bob

PilotBob wrote:

Well, for giggles I went an did a comparison of a "decent" Dell PC and then the parts to build something "similar". I'm not 100% sure on this but here is what I found.

Dell System:

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6600 (2.40GHz, 4M, 1066MHz FSB) edit Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition,SP2, x32, with Media, English edit 2GB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM,800MHz, (2 DIMM) edit 250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s and 8MB DataBurst Cache™ edit 16X DVD+/-RW SATA, Roxio Creator™ Dell Edition edit 256MB ATI Radeon X1300PRO, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA (TV-out), FH edit Broadcom NetXtreme 10/100/1000 PCIe Gigabit Networking Card, Full Height edit Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard, English, Black edit Dell USB 2-Button Optical Mouse with Scroll, Black edit

WARRANTY & SERVICE 3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year NBD On-Site Service edit

$1,384

New Egg Parts:

XION Hydraulic XON-566TB Black with Blue LED Light Steel ATX Mid Tower Case

APEVIA ICEBERG ATX-IB680W-BL ATX12V / EPS12V 680W Power Supply

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600

ASUS P5WDG2-WS PRO Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Server Motherboard

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250820AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

SAMSUNG 18X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write, LightScribe Technology Black SATA Model SH-S183L - OEM

ATI 100-437601 Radeon X1300PRO 256MB GDDR2 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Ready Video Card

Lan - The mother board had 10/100/1000 Nic onboard so I didn't add one.

$1,031.94 - $100 (mail in rebates)

$931.94 (I didn't count keyboard/mouse/os but figure $100 for those?)

---

So, about $400 less already. I tried to pick the same exact part if possible. But for mother board, case, power supply, memory I couldn't really do that.

The concern is I don't know that much about these parts, and they all have individual warranties.

However, ramping up even a little from this point makes a big difference. Like for Dell, to move to the E6700 CPU (2.66 instead of 2.44) they say add $306. The newegg diff on the two processors is $94. Dell, going to 4 gig they say add 535, where the 2gig ram I selected at newegg was $124. The only thing about in line with Dell is a second hard drive would be $87 which the 250gb I list about goes for $68 or I could get the 500gb for $62 more.

Also, I'm not sure if this comes with cables or what? I assume the MB comes with the interface cables... that they way it used to be back when I build PC for a living.

Oh well, if anyone has any suggestion about any of these parts, let me know.

Bob

The E6600 is the right part. It's got the larger L2 cache and can be overclocked to 3.0GHz.

I'd go with the WD Raptor 10k SATA HD. Smaller size (160GB I think?) but awesome for your boot drive. Don't get the Raptor X with the window - it's too noisy.

The Intel 960 chipset is supposed to be their newer chipset. It has a couple of fewer features I believe (I don't think is supports Crossfire) but supposedly faster? Not sure...

Good sized power supply

I'd just confirm that the Radeon you're quoting supports DirectX 10. Not sure it does. At this point in the game, I'd go with a Nvidia card - better support and faster at the DX10 level.

Jeff...

Has anyone heard of, bought from, or know someone that has bought a machine from ibuypower.com ?

I priced out a machine that was pretty close (spec wise not part wise) to the Hanselman Untimate Dev machine. So, basically, a Core 2 Quad, 4gb Ram, but only a single Video card (two monitors is about all I have room for), and the 10,000RPM 150GB Raptor, not sure if I need the 500GB secondary drive, but it was only another 100 or so.

All this for about $1400. Looks like a good price. But, I know nothing about this company.

BOb