I don't want to start a huge long thread, but I was wondering if anybody would care to say a few words about UML and CASE tools such as Rational Rose vs. VS Architect, and if anybody who has the MSDN beta can say anything about what's in the next release (I've heard it will be different, maybe Visio is out?). And how such tools might work with LLBLGenPro.

I've never used these tools before (except for the occasional ER diagram), but I may have to learn them finally, as I may be exporting some work offshore and will really need to have some way of putting specifications on paper for these folks.

Yeah, probably should have gone down this road already, but I'm so incredibly brainy I've been able to design software in my head all these years. You know how it is. I like to script my databases from scratch, etc.

They're very expensive, and cause a lot of overhead, especially Rational XDE, but nevertheless can be very helpful.

What I have against UML is the same I have against a raw E/R model: it's describing a 1:1 projection of what you're going to have in code (or tables) and is thus the same thing but in a different format. Whitehorse (VS.NET 2005's designer) has more abstracted layers (as rational XDE has too)

What I would recommend is the usage of Object Role Modelling (ORM) (www.orm.net), which is supported by visio. The advantage is that you can use it in your functional research and even hand it to your client / customer as it works with simple sentences (Customer Has Order, Order Belongs To Customer... ) and at the same time can be used to generate your relational model

Thanks for the feedback, Frans.

Have a look at Together, by Borland. I believe Microsoft's VS.NET team uses it as well. (or their Office System team). It looks pretty cewl. The pricing for the add-in for VS starts around $199 I believe.

That's funny, a few days ago on a whim I thought I would check the Borland site to see what they have. Apparently they bought it from someone else and it used to cost a lot more. I'm definitely thinking about buying it.

JimFoye wrote:

That's funny, a few days ago on a whim I thought I would check the Borland site to see what they have. Apparently they bought it from someone else and it used to cost a lot more. I'm definitely thinking about buying it.

Yes, Borland bought TogetherSoft some time ago.