Hey guys,

i was just wondering if you coders here, use pencil and paper to do your capturing of requirements/designing or if you use word or something...

I tend to not like to design on "paper" up front, but rather all in my head. Mostly becuase i dont know the correct way to do it i guess. I am in the computer engineering program right now so we dont get any software design stuff and frankly i dont want to pay $$$ to take a class that i could learn on my own through examples in like a week.

Anyone have any good websites or examples? I have searched google but cant find much, i guess i am just not using the right keywords.

OpenOffice

A design document which contains descriptions of the big line in the application and describes per part how it works, what it does etc. I write these when I'm designing a part of the application. So thoughts about how to do it are written in there. This helps ordening the stuff out and what's better: you don't forget how something works/design decisions (!) over time.

I use pieces of paper to draw / write quick reminders how something should work, as a scratchpad.

If I'm confident I know what I have to implement, I'm going to implement the code.

Answer wrote:

I tend to not like to design on "paper" up front, but rather all in my head. Mostly becuase i dont know the correct way to do it i guess. I am in the computer engineering program right now so we dont get any software design stuff and frankly i dont want to pay $$$ to take a class that i could learn on my own through examples in like a week.

Not knowing how to create the documentation you wish you had is a common stumbling block. From my experience, taking a class would probably be very beneficial. However, I didn't take classes. Instead, I opted to read half a dozen books of varying but related subjects. Sure, you could search the internet to get you started (check out http://www.processimpact.com/goodies.shtml for some GREAT starter templates and information!) but there is no substitution for the wealth of knowledge that can be gained by reading a couple of books. It will also help you break out of that, "I wish I knew where to start" mind frame.

I have to stop now before I start regurgitating quotes from books and lessons learned.

I use MS OneNote as my first step. It is the best tool for outlines I've ever seen, dragging and dropping and re-arranging works like a dream. If I had a Tablet PC, it would be perfect.

I would suggest you start using Visio, especially if you use the SQL Server diagram tool in Enterprise Manager at all.

(check out http://www.processimpact.com/goodies.shtml for some GREAT starter templates and information!)

Thats got some sample ones, exactly what i am looking for. Anyone else have any samples from a real project or know a site that makes some available?

I actually have a book, that is pretty good, the problem i have is that it drags thing out, and i dont have the time to read all the extra stuff with it to understand whats going on...i have a short attention span, hence the reason i like reference manuals

I would suggest you start using Visio, especially if you use the SQL Server diagram tool in Enterprise Manager at all.

Do you generally use UML to design your app?

Naturally i bought the Enterprise Developer edition of MSDN so i dont get visio...rats...

You know, I'm starting to check out the beta for Whidbey, and so far I'm impressed by it's built-in modeling abilities. Talk about productivity enhancers. It's a lot like Visio's software modeling abilities, but there's something -better- about it. Maybe it's something about the comfort of knowing your changes to the model are happening in real-time; I'm not sure, but it's nice. If you have access to the beta be sure to check it out.

Jeff...

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great. Real round-trip engineering.

I wonder if the designer controls are available for add-ins as well. I hope so, as it would make a great start for a great add-in for VS.NET 2005 (hint)

Otis wrote:

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great. Real round-trip engineering.

I wonder if the designer controls are available for add-ins as well. I hope so, as it would make a great start for a great add-in for VS.NET 2005 (hint)

OOOoooo. <begins to salivate>

Official Feature Request List For LLBLGen Pro Add-In to Visual Studio 2005

1. Integrated Designer (obviously )
2. Real-time, automatic code generation and compiles from changes to entity definitions (i.e., the elimination of code generation as a necessary, manual step)
3. Drag and drop support for entityclasses onto the design surface (for dependency mapping and inclusion into the model)
4. Ability to map/create entities from in-code typed datasets/XML documents and use them as data sources
5. In-IDE support for entity modification/extension and inheritance design?

Ok. Wet dream's over. Nothing to see here people. Move along....These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Jeff...

P.S. I think its sad that at 1:30 in the morning when I can't sleep, I come here. What exactly does that say?

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great.

I know i am always telling everybody about what a great tool delphi use to be

Just though i should tell you again that delphi had this for the last 3 years. It was a thirdparty add-on called ModelMaker. The poor M$ developers are ony now discovering or starting to make use of the advanced type of tools that have been around for atleat 2-3 years.

Personally i don't like Visio (Any version) it always seems buggy to me. Like when i have to create ERD's using it. It sucks..there is much better tools out there.

P.S. I think its sad that at 1:30 in the morning when I can't sleep, I come here. What exactly does that say?

hmmmm, maybe we are the only friends you have?....What do you mean 1:30 in the morning? It is already 10:45 here.

Anyone have any good websites or examples? I have searched google but cant find much, i guess i am just not using the right keywords.

NO websites that i know of, but here is the method we use.

• Do a requirements document. - What is this project or module suppose to do - Do NOT get technical.
• Lay out to flow of data in diagram of some sorts. - Case diagram
• Identify the different processes and write a little overview of each - Do NOT get technical
• if a database is to be used. Sit down and design the database by looking at the processes. Create an ERD as part of the documentation
• Analize each process - and do a Class diagram on how it is suppose to work
• Create one big class diagram so you can see that you are not duplicating simular classes
• Take each class - describe it's purpose - Now you can get a little technical.
• Distribute the work in module section between the developers - with documentation included
• Review the work as a group after each module - if doing a project as hole - review everyweek

Seeing as this can be alot of work to for a project devide the project into smaller modules. Like when you start with a new project plan and create the security module first - with login's and all of that and then the rest of the system.

jeffreygg wrote:

Otis wrote:

I second that, the whitehorse stuff (as it was called) is great. Real round-trip engineering.

I wonder if the designer controls are available for add-ins as well. I hope so, as it would make a great start for a great add-in for VS.NET 2005 (hint)

OOOoooo. <begins to salivate>

hahaha

Official Feature Request List For LLBLGen Pro Add-In to Visual Studio 2005

Uhoh

1. Integrated Designer (obviously )

With the whitehorse stuff, I really like that indeed. I'm not sure if you have to become a vs.net gold partner for 10,000$ a year to get access to those thingies.

1. Real-time, automatic code generation and compiles from changes to entity definitions (i.e., the elimination of code generation as a necessary, manual step)

You want that? I'd suggest you don't want that . You want to design the specifics, and after you're done let the tool finalize your specifics.

1. Ability to map/create entities from in-code typed datasets/XML documents and use them as data sources

Xml databases? hmm... Not sure if that's possible though, through the different nature of xml

1. In-IDE support for entity modification/extension and inheritance design?

This will come (in the designer) before the end of the year: import of assembly with classes and mapping of classes onto tables and the other way around map tables on a hierarchy of entity classes.

P.S. I think its sad that at 1:30 in the morning when I can't sleep, I come here. What exactly does that say?

I don't want to know

Make some hot chocolate and go back to bed At least you CAN go to bed now, we here are suffering morning blues already

Why in the hell would you make hot chocolate? that has caffenine I shouldnt talk though, i generally will grab a can of Mt. Dew..

warm up some milk or something

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk?

(chocolate doesn't contain caffeine if I'm correct, but please correct me if I'm wrong)

Horlicks is what you want if you can't sleep!

Otis wrote:

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk?

(chocolate doesn't contain caffeine if I'm correct, but please correct me if I'm wrong)

Actually chocolate does contain caffeine :

http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/4908/calories.htm

cool, didn't know that

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk?

Over here, hot chocolate comes in a package, you add water and warm up...Defineatly is not hot chocolate milk

Althought, it would work

I better add this hot chocolate tip to my list...

• Do a requirements document................while drinking Hot chocolate milk

Answer wrote:

Isn't hot chocolate == warm chocolate milk?

Over here, hot chocolate comes in a package, you add water and warm up...Defineatly is not hot chocolate milk

Althought, it would work

Answer, you can add milk to those packages instead of water. Silly boy.

Skeeterbug wrote:

Answer, you can add milk to those packages instead of water. Silly boy.

Same goes for coffee... make your instant coffee with hot milk instead of hot water

And i thought the "It is Friday!" thread has gone off-topic

Well, it is Thursday

Yeah but white milk It then becomes chocolate.

I just have never heard of hot chocolate being chocolate milk

but i guess it could be, most the US calls pop, soda

Answer wrote:

but i guess it could be, most the US calls pop, soda

I beg to differ. I just think that there are some that call soda, "pop".

Jeff...