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wayne avatar
wayne
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Posts: 611
Joined: 07-Apr-2004
# Posted on: 07-Jul-2004 16:40:40   

Whoa... that's way too much. You can then better write some HTML stuff and display that in a browser or fill word docs through automation (or fight with CR)

I am currently pushing HTML out with a save as Excel option - the problem is paging and page sizes.

I Gave up on Crystal Reports in .Net 2002 after it kept on loosing my report settings and crasing VS.Net. I am actually glad as designing reports as normal forms and then populating it using entites was much faster than trying to create a report with crystal

PS - your forum reports 4 pages when the 3rd page is full - only the next post (this post) will be added to the 4th page.

Otis avatar
Otis
LLBLGen Pro Team
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# Posted on: 07-Jul-2004 17:04:27   

Hmm, tiny bug then there... (never noticed it)

Crystal reports is not my choice of having fun either, but it's what you get for free with vs.net, so it saves you a lot of $$$ ...

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
swallace
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Posts: 648
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# Posted on: 07-Jul-2004 21:33:55   

Has anyone used MS's Reporting Services in a product environment yet? I've dinked with it, and it didn't die (high praise compared to Crystal Reports), but I've never seen it rolled out. Does it survive? The price is certainly right, if you already license MS SQL.

swallace
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# Posted on: 07-Jul-2004 21:35:23   

Wayne, you've overtaken me in number of posts, second to Otis. I'm thinking of challenging you to a "post-off" simple_smile

jeffreygg
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# Posted on: 07-Jul-2004 21:37:29   

Active Reports is great...love it love it love it. The price isn't too bad if you don't get the site license - I even think it's better than Crystal given that you have to pay extra to use the API (beyond using the report designer), and you have to pay runtime royalties to distribute their end-user report designer. Plus I'm not sure how xcopy deploy works with Crystal - ActiveReports is a dream.

As far as binding to entities: I'm pretty sure that you can - at least I'm pretty sure that I have, or at least bound to GetMultiAsDataTable which of course returns a datatable (would love to have post-entitycollection-creation support for that , ie: ConvertToDataTable), however it's not as useful as you think as you will not be able to return related entity fields. TypedViews/Lists are the only choice here (we used sprocs, since we needed aggregates). At any rate, I highly recommend Active Reports, and I think the overall hard cost is lower if you are doing serious integration work, not to mention total ROI.

Send me an e-mail if you'd like more information about Active Reports pluses and minuses...

Jeff...

Answer
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Posts: 363
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
# Posted on: 07-Jul-2004 21:55:23   

You know you can download the vb.net resource kit for free, in it contains the ComponentOne Suite, it includes asp.net and winforms report component. Seems pretty descent, i have only messed with it, not used it in a production yet.

One thing i noticed about crystal is that your limited to only one server meaning you can only distribute it to one client. (asp.net)

as far as i can tell the component one report thing doesnt have that limit.

wayne avatar
wayne
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# Posted on: 08-Jul-2004 11:34:22   

Ok - here we go - several postings in one post.simple_smile

Wayne, you've overtaken me in number of posts, second to Otis. I'm thinking of challenging you to a "post-off"

You will never win - i am a internet junky.wink stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye - How do you know who is second? I did not even know that i was competing...

The price isn't too bad if you don't get the site license

What is the differences between the Site and No-Site license?

I need a reporting tool with the following (My cleints requirements): 1. Once of price - No royalties. 2. To distribute to as many cleints as i wish. 3. Must have a build in designer for End Users. 4. Must work with .Net (duh!) & SQL Server.

As far as binding to entities: I'm pretty sure that you can

I remember that i saw under 3rd party a task performer that makes visual controls of the collections & entities - Will that fix my design time problem? I hate doing work arounds - assigning code at runtime to make it work!!!rage (design report - compile - hope and pray - see report - back to source - make changes - compile....)

One thing i noticed about crystal is that your limited to only one server meaning you can only distribute it to one client. (asp.net)

I don't think i will ever use crystal again, wasted 2 months of trying to make it work. In the ASP world you don't actually need a report writer as everting is HTML and you can just desgin Black and white forms. The problem comes in when users want to design their own reports. Active X & Com reports are not really on my list - because the cleint needs to download the control first(most people still use dial up's here).

swallace
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Posts: 648
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
# Posted on: 08-Jul-2004 14:47:39   

How do you know who is second?

Just guessing based on viewing messages. I've not seen report.

I don't think i will ever use crystal again

Same here. They've changed hands several times in the past few years, and I get the feeling their new corporate masters don't care about the product. I was hoping MS would dump them from the upcoming Visual Studio 2005 in favor of their own Reporting Services, but MS has already announced they won't.

Where does old software go to die?

Active Reports is great

I've heard that. I'll give them a try.

Be sure to check out:

http://www.developerfood.com/forms/showcategory,02271358-d35a-45ad-80d1-9716c55a36a3.aspx (interesting. The forum viewer (or perhaps my browser) does not pick up the URL past the comma. You'll want to get the whole thing...)

to see another product, Report Sharp-Shooter from 9rays.net. I've no personal experience with it, but I've also heard good things.

However, all in all I usually go with the Microsoft solution. Still, nobody experienced with MS Reporting Services? Any opinions yet?

jeffreygg
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Posts: 805
Joined: 26-Oct-2003
# Posted on: 08-Jul-2004 18:59:07   

wayne wrote:

What is the differences between the Site and No-Site license?

The Site license just gives you unlimited licenses for your development team to use the software. You only need 1 license (not the site license, just an individual license - for the professional version which includes the end-user report designer, I think it's $1300 US) per developer and that gives you unlimited distribution of the the reports, and unlimited distribution of the end-user report designer. There's also a web-based control for web delivery, an HTML exporter, etc.

The integration with VS is extremely tight, more so than I think Crystal could ever be: there's the report designer (just like the winforms designer), as well as a code-behind. You can pretty much handle any event imaginable in the report generation process to inject your code, do conditional formatting, create run-time controls, bind data dynamically - whatever you want.

The end-user report designer is contained in a single managed dll. So, you can use Click Once if you want, but at any rate deployment is a dream.

Jeff...

jeffreygg
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Posts: 805
Joined: 26-Oct-2003
# Posted on: 08-Jul-2004 19:04:53   

swallace wrote:

However, all in all I usually go with the Microsoft solution. Still, nobody experienced with MS Reporting Services? Any opinions yet?

My opinion of MS Reporting Services is that it's best used for enterprise reporting deployments. I think it's a bit overkill for "single-use" type solutions because it's really a complete platform for report delivery - something akin to Crystal Enterprise. I'm sure the report development is tightly integrated with VS, but you'll have to deal with the overhead of the server install, and go through the learning curve of how they want to deliver the reports, when perhaps all you need is simple preview and print.

However, if a complete report management and delivery system is what you want, I'll bet Reporting Services is perfect. The native integration with VS, SQL, and IIS is what every Microsoft developer wants, and I'm sure they have an API you can code against to customize the delivery experience.

Jeff...

wayne avatar
wayne
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Posts: 611
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# Posted on: 09-Jul-2004 13:38:33   

Hi All, It is Freaky Fridaystuck_out_tongue_winking_eye !!!! (Back on topicsimple_smile ...well for a second in any casesimple_smile )

The Site license just gives you unlimited licenses for your development team to use the software. You only need 1 license (not the site license, just an individual license - for the professional version which includes the end-user report designer, I think it's $1300 US) per developer and that gives you unlimited distribution of the the reports, and unlimited distribution of the end-user report designer. There's also a web-based control for web delivery, an HTML exporter, etc.

Thanks Jeffsimple_smile , We going to need more than 1 license - going to need 4 licenses...and the price is to high unfortunatly - according to the cleint.

How much Active X does it use? Would like a pure .net approuch....

and unlimited distribution of the end-user report designer

unlimited? We have 4 BIG cleints using asp.net app, can we distribute to them free of charge? What about royalties?

And the Sproc implementation that you where talking about in the Databinding section sounds scary!

swallace
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Posts: 648
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
# Posted on: 09-Jul-2004 19:19:01   

This seems like a good thread to wish Otis (Frans) a very happy 34th birthday. Couldn't have done the things I've done **WITHOUT **you! Best wishes.

Sw.

jeffreygg
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Posts: 805
Joined: 26-Oct-2003
# Posted on: 09-Jul-2004 21:00:19   

wayne wrote:

Hi All, It is Freaky Fridaystuck_out_tongue_winking_eye !!!! (Back on topicsimple_smile ...well for a second in any casesimple_smile )

The Site license just gives you unlimited licenses for your development team to use the software. You only need 1 license (not the site license, just an individual license - for the professional version which includes the end-user report designer, I think it's $1300 US) per developer and that gives you unlimited distribution of the the reports, and unlimited distribution of the end-user report designer. There's also a web-based control for web delivery, an HTML exporter, etc.

Thanks Jeffsimple_smile , We going to need more than 1 license - going to need 4 licenses...and the price is to high unfortunatly - according to the cleint.

I actually believe it's comparable or better than Crystal Reports IF you're going to be doing any integration (code-level) into your project.

How much Active X does it use? Would like a pure .net approuch....

None, nill, zilch, nada. Deployment is pure xcopy

and unlimited distribution of the end-user report designer

unlimited? We have 4 BIG cleints using asp.net app, can we distribute to them free of charge? What about royalties?

I am reasonably (99%) sure that there are 0 distribution costs/royalties for the end-user report designer, which makes it a steal compared to Crystal. And the end-user report designer is a dream to code against.

And the Sproc implementation that you where talking about in the Databinding section sounds scary!

Yea, I wasn't happy about using sprocs, but I had to. Just an issue of timing: I missed Adapter by 2 months, and I missed the runtime library updates that would have enabled the features I needed by 2 months as well rage

Jeff...

jeffreygg
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Posts: 805
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# Posted on: 09-Jul-2004 21:01:18   

swallace wrote:

Couldn't have done the things I've done with you!

Heh. What a thing to say on the guy's birthday, sheesh! wink

Jeff...

swallace
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Posts: 648
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
# Posted on: 09-Jul-2004 21:13:18   
What a thing to say on the guy's birthday, sheesh!

What? What'd I say? I don't get it? Did I offend? I really meant that I'd built great code using his stuff! What?

flushed

Of course, he is kind of old...

simple_smile

jeffreygg
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Posts: 805
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# Posted on: 09-Jul-2004 21:20:17   

I think you meant to say, Couldn't have done the things I've done without you. simple_smile

Jeff...

Yes, yes, the anal retentive police are out in force, I know.

Of course, he is kind of old...

Yea, just a few years left, I know. Hope he get's CF support by then. It's a shame he decided to put LLBLGen Pro together in his waning years... simple_smile

Jeff...

Otis avatar
Otis
LLBLGen Pro Team
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# Posted on: 10-Jul-2004 09:51:20   

Thanks Scott simple_smile

hehheh simple_smile I'm not old, I'm just starting! simple_smile Really! wink

Most developers of 34 are looking for a position like 'project lead' or similar. I however like the code-trenches simple_smile

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
Answer
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# Posted on: 10-Jul-2004 15:06:15   

Well technically you kinda are the project lead, and owner, and architect simple_smile

Ahh, the joys of being self employeed smile

Otis avatar
Otis
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# Posted on: 10-Jul-2004 15:15:45   

Answer wrote:

Well technically you kinda are the project lead, and owner, and architect simple_smile

Ahh, the joys of being self employeed smile

smile , you got that right. simple_smile But the biggest advantage is that because you're the owner of the project, spending time on it is natural and rewarding: you're not doing it for a paycheck but for getting a better tool out there simple_smile (or maybe that is just me, I don't know wink )

Frans Bouma | Lead developer LLBLGen Pro
Answer
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# Posted on: 10-Jul-2004 18:09:42   

But the biggest advantage is that because you're the owner of the project, spending time on it is natural and rewarding: you're not doing it for a paycheck but for getting a better tool out there (or maybe that is just me, I don't know )

Totally agree, its ALOT of hard work, but your payoff is usually better. Not just in money(many times worse), but you have the pride of what you have accomplished.

wayne avatar
wayne
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# Posted on: 12-Jul-2004 12:36:15   

But the biggest advantage is that because you're the owner of the project, spending time on it is natural and rewarding

I have to agree with that statement. simple_smile

I developed my own product called Netready MLM, it is a MLM management system. MLM stands for Multi Level Marketing yeah you guest right - Co's like Herbalife and Amway are MLM companies. MLM Companies tend to get bad wraps as being pyramid schemes - but there turnover is HUGE!! and that is a good thing for me.

Bassically i give the system away for free and get money on a hosting the systems and on a royalty bassis per dealer that joins the co and that renews their dealership after every year. I currently have 2 clients but in the last year things have gone a bit slow - so me and my devs had to start doing contract work for other co's just to be able to eat.

This is just killing my soul...as i personally don't want to work on somebody elses system - No matter how interesting it might be or how much they pay me - I want to work on my own project.rage - But there seem to be light at the end of the tunnel - things are picking up again.

It is hugely rewarding to work on your own project - And you don't mind putting in more hours. There is just no grativication to work for somebody else...you end up just working for experience or a pay check and none of them really make you feel great. So how do you make your developers happy? You give them a cut of the action - make them feel as if they work for themselfs - That means that they will work on the system as if it is their own and they won't leave to find a better paying job.

wayne avatar
wayne
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# Posted on: 13-Jul-2004 20:27:54   

Com on people were so close to a hundred postings in one thread - just 4 more...come on.simple_smile

jeffreygg
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# Posted on: 13-Jul-2004 21:05:11   

Troll...

smile

Jeff...

wayne avatar
wayne
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# Posted on: 13-Jul-2004 21:14:48   

Ass wipe. smile

Fishy avatar
Fishy
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# Posted on: 13-Jul-2004 22:08:03   

99, one more...

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